Vid from 8/28

Granted, the D in question is a non V A6.  But it has intake/header/exh.  There is also no mention if this is a 90-91 B18A or a 92-93, there was a 10HP difference.  

But even if we skew the B18's HP down some, and the D's up a bit, we can't ignore the LARGE differences in torque.

torque is always more under 5252rpm and hp is always more then tq above 5252. the operating range of both engines will be from about 5k to 7k? all in the hp range of the engine. which in actuality will prob give the d series and advantage since the graph shows the curve is flatter and longer than a b18. 

not to mention you are showing an engine thats rated ten hp less than a z6 and an ls thats rated 10hp more then the one she is running. so the graphs should be closer then what that shows.

if you ask me i would never swap a stock b18a/b from a strong d series. i out ran ls integras all day long at lake geneva with my non vtec d series. imo they are better than the ls engines. either way next year is sure to be different. we can enforce things right away instead of letting everything slide.

thank you come again

I tell ya, it was almost impossible to find STOCK dyno graphs on these engines anywhere.  This being all on the same dyno, in my eyes, gave me the closest thing I could get.  Still flawed - for sure.  But closest.  And as stated, we don't know if thats a 130 or 140 HP B18a, but I would err on the side of it being the later 140. 

Here is a D16Z6 graph from Jackson Racing:

I'd say it jives OK with that A6 I/H/E graph though.  Not sure where you would see any advantage on the D's graphs tho.  The B make ALOT more torque ALL the time, it tapers at a more abrupt angle, but basically until the plug is pulled on the dyno run, it's making alot more.  I'm not saying that a nice D can't run with/beat a B, but it's not a lateral comparion by any means.  

i get what youre saying. my point is with a z6 you are operating in its fattest part of its power band. the b18a/b has a good power band between 4k and like 5500 rpm. while youre racing its going to be operating in the 5k to 7k range. which is where its power band is fallin off.

either way its kind of beating a dead horse since next year will probably be more strict and a swapped car will not be able to race for points. there is only one more race for points guys.

and i think he uses the a6 as a guide because not one of the cars racing besides mr. groschs gsr came with vtec they are all swapped if they have a vtek engine. and thats cheating. why would one guy have to pull a engine but a few others can keep vtek or engine swaps.

o btw id like the claim rule if there is one at atleast 1000. UMP has a high claim rule that be 1 500 dollar car, 1 professional roll cage, padding, and your gauges.

           at the begining of the season all the f4 drivers who inquired about swaps where told one thing and one thing only. #@$%$&$ doesnt finish races let alone win. #@$%$&$ has WON!!! the time has come to pull the plug. inform the drivers that swaps will be legal the rest of the year if they are....

and i think he uses the a6 as a guide because not one of the cars racing besides mr. groschs gsr came with vtec they are all swapped if they have a vtek engine. and thats cheating. why would one guy have to pull a engine but a few others can keep vtek or engine swaps.

-1fastcrx

did you not read any of the rest of the thread??

What I find funny is the people that come to the track having full access to the rules, but still insist on making their own and attempting to have them applied. The track rules are pretty specific it's just that the last few years they didn't tech the cars and this year they are. So not as many cars are "passing" as last year. All you had to do last year is show up and not have a Corvette engine in the car. This year they check stuff. I'm all about fair racing and I really hope I can sell my car and get another and build it up completely stock and do well with it. Only reason the 42M isn't higher up in the points is bad luck. That thing is the closest to stock of anyone in the class and if it doesn't do well you don't hear people bitching about it. If any one of you were winning races you wouldn't want the rules changed and you'd be defending the tech inspector. But since you come out expecting to win rather than come out hoping to have fun, this is how it is. I never won a feature. I won 1 heat race because of lapped traffic. I was out there every week last year and every week this year until I couldn't afford it anymore. I had fun. That's the whole point of this class. Fun. If you don't like the rules you don't have to run Wilmot. Go run Sycamore. Or any other track. The rules are what they are. I don't care for they way they run the track but I think the rules are pretty straightforward and not many grey areas.

To quote a friend of mine... "How do you make a small fortune racing? Start out with a big fortune"

First off, fuck claimers. There is no need for a claimer at wilmot. We got too much into safety equipment, let alone the shell, jyard motors, trans', etc...

Second, who do you guys think you are? These rules are pretty cut and dry, right there in black and white. And you know the consequences for breaking them, so what's the problem? Quit trying to change the rules to work around your cheating, quit trying to get them to modify the rules to your liking... Deal with it or go elsewhere. Its obvious Wilmot doesn't respect/want us there to begin with, you really think they're gonna change the rules...?

Side note, nice work at columbus tonight Steve. You really made your way through the field. That 109 car was a fuckin dick. He was mirror driving and blockin everyone all night...

im done for the year guys.. car is to badly bent and broken to salvage... im building a new escort for next year, my plan is to have the car look very professional so we can finnaly get some respect we ALL deserve.. and after my crash that i am still recovering from i am upgrading to a full containment seat and XDEFENDER neck restraint..

to be honest i enjoyed racing with you guys this year, and if we arent gonna try to figure out a revised rule book thats fine. Just trying to get us the cars we need to run a good show..

Gonna build a car that will keep up with that damn integra

peace out guys

First off, fuck claimers. There is no need for a claimer at wilmot. We got too much into safety equipment, let alone the shell, jyard motors, trans', etc... Second, who do you guys think you are? These rules are pretty cut and dry, right there in black and white. And you know the consequences for breaking them, so what's the problem? Quit trying to change the rules to work around your cheating, quit trying to get them to modify the rules to your liking... Deal with it or go elsewhere. Its obvious Wilmot doesn't respect/want us there to begin with, you really think they're gonna change the rules...?Side note, nice work at columbus tonight Steve. You really made your way through the field. That 109 car was a fuckin dick. He was mirror driving and blockin everyone all night...

-lk

claim rule sucks but it is very effective. we never had a problem with people having 4000 dollar engines at lake geneva. claim rule normally excludes safety items by the way. 

thank you sir!! were you there for the heat race? i won the heat lol. yeah those neons were queers i was 85% in the grass i was so low (15% being my right side wheels) and he still chopped me down. the first 10 laps i was just coasting around because there is no where to pass there. my car was suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuper loose so i couldnt really go up top. pretty much a one groove track though, it was really boring just coasting around in traffic waiting for someone to make a mistake. oh well i started last 16th or 17th and made it up to 6th and won the fast heat. all in all a decent night i guess.

No, I missed the heat, I got there right at that little rain delay. And yeah, you were def loose. Lol

Anyway, have fun guys. No massive crew tonight.

FAIL!!! i was like almost half track ahead of 2nd! lol. thats why they made me start in last place for the feature. 

youre coming tomorrow right?

"Second, who do you guys think you are? These rules are pretty cut and dry, right there in black and white. And you know the consequences for breaking them, so what's the problem? "

there aint no rules. every driver has there own rules this year how it seems. change this change that, cuz otherwise we will lose alot of cars. i understand... when will next years rules be finished or are they staying the same????

so if there "aint no" rules that means there are right?

I don't understand how there's no rules, when I just posted the rules earlier on in this thread. This year is kind of a bullshit year because there never was tech inspection before so now the techs have to work harder to get everything close to a level playing field. Last year they looked at our cars twice. First time was to check to see if our seats (aluminum seats) had fender washers. Second time was to make sure we had them or we couldn't race. That was it. Go to any other class and tech is much more detailed. I'd enjoy the loose teching as it is right now. If they were to follow the rules exactly word for word as it states in the rules there would be maybe 1 car running every week. You can piss and moan about rules this and tech that but there's more than that holding the car count down. I'm not there mainly because I got tired of fixing stuff every race. Last year wasn't as bad, this year they got the new clay and they can't figure it out so it's getting tore up real bad and rutting something fierce, which is breaking stuff. As well as causing more incidents on the track. That's why I'm not there. Money's a big issue also but I was finding the money to run earlier this year and I still would if it weren't something new breaking every week. In addition there's not a huge welcoming committee so to speak as far as current drivers go. Last year I felt right at home by my 2nd race because everyone was so friendly. This year it seems most people keep to themselves. The Massive guys do a good job socializing but as of when I quit I still couldn't name really anyone but them and Eric (from him always winning) and Scrapper Dan (catchy name). But I'm rambling now I'm sure. There's rules in place. It's up to the drivers to follow them.

i like how trevor changed his screen name lol

My bad, I forgot we raced today and not sat, but no, we will not be attending. Karls up north, and I'm doing the tournament of destruction at Jefferson tonight. I figured it was time to retire my truck. Lol

And Trevor didn't change his name, it would appear he deleted his account...?